I thought I was doing well avoiding wheat for a few days and keeping a neutral pH.  Great disappointment today.  After our walk we called at a very nice cafe at the side of the lake and I felt really noble refusing any of the cakes, while I watched hubby tuck into a huge piece of apple pie.  In desperation I bought a small bar of chocolate, the only thing I could see without wheat flour, to have with my milky coffee. I cannot even say I enjoyed it, I like the occasional piece of strong dark chocolate but find the milk chocolate just sickly.  Checked my pH a few hrs later and it had gone from 7.5 to pH 6. 

I really must buy a book on food pH. I've got various print outs from the internet and never thought of looking up chocolate or coffee for that matter.  What would you suggest? Amazon have quite a few but I don't know which to go for.

I buy my pH strips from the internet.  I get the Energise make from Amazon, which have two points of reference.  Their range is from 4.5 to 9.0  I sometimes find that the colour match of the 2 patches will actually lie across two different readings eg 6 and 6.25 so you take your pick!  They are on a parr with the ones we used in the lab (when we couldn't be bothered to get the pH meter out)   They cost nearly £12 for a pack of 80.  You can probably get ones just as good, cheaper.  Just make sure that the postage is included with the cheaper ones.

I asked in Boots whether they sold pH papers and the staff just looked blank and said no.  If you find out otherwise, please let me know.

Lynne H

I probably use the same pH papers as you (Energise).  I agree they can sometimes be difficult to determine.  I suppose the papers which show a single 'colour' spot are probably more easy to read, but potentially not as accurate. I really don't think it matters which way you read it within the 0.25 unit range. Your range of 6.5 to 7.5 sounds exceptable. 

I never eat meat, I now rely on eggs, cheese and fish for most of my complete proteins,  so after consuming these I know my urine pH will be sometimes be down to as low as 6.  You have to  be sensible and get a happy medium between alkali pH and ensuring that you are not ending up protein deficient.   As a vegetarian for 30 plus years, I was shocked when I actually started weighing and measuring my daily nutrient intake, after breaking my wrists and being diagnosed with OP 12 months ago.  This is why I started eating fish.  I still find it hard to get anywhere near the guide lines of 56g protein and 70g of fat.  I am luck if I get 40 to 50 g of fat, which is not good, if you want to absorb sufficient fat soluble vitamins like D and K2.

Do you take magnesium?   I tend to take up to 600mg as supplement per day, depending on how much calcium I have ingested from food.  I try to keep my total Ca intake below 1200mg per day and try to avoid the need for Ca supplements.  My Mg tablets are 150mg of coated, chelated compound, so I spread them out during the day, about 1hr  after meals. They are very alkali,  just try breaking one up and standing it in a drop of water for a while, it will measure almost off the pH scale!  Its a good job they are coated!  If I have had acidic food late in the day I will take an extra Mg in the evening and my urine pH is alway alkali by the morning. 

Lynne H

Thanks for the prompt rely.  I do sometimes buy avocados, which can give me about 16g of fat depending on the size. I shop at Morrison's and must confess that the quality of their avocados vary greatly.  I'm not very good at telling when they are at their best to eat. They seem to change from their typical green to a very dark colour qute quickly at home. I wait until they 'give'  but still find some are under ripe and tasteless, while the flesh of others are beginning to go brown.  I still eat them but they are not as enjoyable.

I have never had coconut oil so will lookout for it next time I go shopping.  I probably don't always eat enough veg with my protein.  When I eat egg or cheese I still tend to  automatically put them with some sort of bread, which I know is silly.  I must try harder!

Lynne H

Self medicating is a mine field and not necessarily one I recommend.  I'm sorry I don't know what you OP/medical history is (and its none of my business anyway) so have no idea whether the supplements I take would be ideal for you. 

Its important it know why you have OP.  You cannot drawup a treatment/lifestyle plan without taking into consideration any underlying medical condition or previous treatment, which may have caused the OP. Do you have a family history of OP?   Ideally your doctor/Osteo consultant should have done a full range of blood tests including hormones, minerals (including Ca, Mg, etc)  and vitamin levels (including vit D, B12) FBC etc.  

When I was diagnosed with a DEXA scan after breaking both wrists, I was put onto alendronic acid and Calcichew D3 forte (Ca:1000 mg and D3: 800 IU) by my GP. I was refused a consultant referal and worst of all, refused a blood test for Ca and vit D levels.  So I was taking supplements without knowing my baseline levels. It was only many months later after stopping the AA, and self medicating with strontium citrate, Mg, extra D3 and K2 (MK7): thereby reaching stalemate with my GP that I got the referal. 

I had all the blood test done by the consultant, after asking for them, and surprise, surprise, all my levels were normal.  Was this because they had been normal all the time and my OP was from my Mam and Nan who both had had it,  or because I had been taking the supplements in quite high doses for months?  I will never know. 

I take Mg because it is the most important  co-factor of vitamin D and along with zinc, boron and  vit K2 is meeded by the body to utilize vit D properly.  Taking Ca and vit D supplements can cause cardiac death if you have deficiencies of magnesium. This may be quite rare but another reason for taking Mg supplements.  The following links give information about vit D and magnesium.   They are worth looking at.

http://www.ajcn.org/content/93/2/253.abstract

http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2004/08/07/miracle-magnesium.aspx

http://vitamindcouncil.org/newsletter/more-vitamin-d-questions-and-answers.shtml

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2006/10/26/beware-of-most-prescription-vitamin-d-supplements

Some papers suggest that your calcium to magnesium ratio should be 2:1  Others say the ratio should be closer to 1:1.  Initially you really need to check what your daily calcium intake is from food,  by weighing what you eat and using food assay values which you can get from the internet.  The recommended total calcium intake is about 1200mg per day.  This is assuming that you haven't got a calcium deficiency to start with.  I usually manage to get most of this from food, but will sometimes take a little Ca supplement if my food intake is far short of this.  I would aim for a Mg intake of at least 600mg, to balance the 1200mg Ca.  This would again be from food plus 3 to 4 tablets of chelated Mg (150mg each).

I have seen no paper suggesting that you use Mg to regulate your urine pH. It was just something I observed and tried, when measuring mine.  It appears to work for me but everyone is different..  Mg is very alkali, so I always use coated, chelated tablets (Holland and Barrett) and tried them gradually.  I found that Mg oxide which came with zinc, that I once bought, gave me chronic indigestion, so you must be very careful if you are self medicating.

The quantity of vit D3 you take,  must take into consideration what your blood level showed.  Mine was 'normal'  so I take 1000 IU per day on sunny days and perhaps up to 3000 IU in winter.  I cannot over stress, how important it is to have a base line vit D blood test done. If you are deficient, your intake would need to reflect this and your doctor should prescribe a high dose.  I think Annabel  has had problems with D3 and knows all about it!

The K2 is another cause of confusion.  The MK-4 is the standard treatment in Japan for OP.  at a dose of 45mg.   The MK-7 still seems to be very important to stop the calcium building up in arteries. See posting from Annabel.  I believe that the MK4 was shown to work at clearing arteries in animals, but there seems to be less evidence to show it clearing arteries in humans.   On the American  National Osteoporosis Foundation forum some folk reported  problems after taking MK7, with their heart rate.  This returned to normal after they reduced the dosage.  Its worth looking at the NOF forum, you will get lots of information from it on this subject.

At present I take 45mcg of MK-7 (normal dose is 90mcg)  and up to 10mg of MK-4.  I am on strontium ranelate and Servier were unable to say whether K2 would have any interact with the SR. It has never been tested with it in a trial. This is one reason why I take  reduced amounts (apart from the cost) 

 My doctor doesn't approve of me taking either Mg or vit K2 because they are not recommended by NICE.    so you take them at your own risk!

I am not sure about any problems  of taking K2 with aspirin.   It shouldn't be taken with anticoagulants like warfarin.

Hope this has been of some help

Lynne H